Unstretched canvas

[Hank Buffington]

What is your process for painting on unstretched canvas or linen? Do you buy rolls that are already primed and simply cut it up? I read that Sherrie McGraw stretches a huge canvas, then primes it, lets it dry, then cuts it up. I just taped a piece of unprimed canvas to a board and gave it two coats of gesso but haven't gotten to paint on it yet. Do you have a preferred method or is one way better than another? Thanks. 

[John Alexander Day]

The following may be of interest to the use of PVA glue size from Winsor & Newton:

Q. "Can canvas be primed with foundation white over a PVA size? Is this safe?"

W&N. "We do not advise the use of PVA at all as it is not archival.  It may disintegrate prematurely leaving the remaining painting with no foundations."

[Bruce Bundock]

John Alexander Day said:

The following may be of interest to the use of PVA glue size from Winsor & Newton:

Q. "Can canvas be primed with foundation white over a PVA size? Is this safe?"

W&N. "We do not advise the use of PVA at all as it is not archival.  It may disintegrate prematurely leaving the remaining painting with no foundations."

[Bruce Bundock]

If I am not mistaken, I think a well known oil paint manufacturer recommends the use of a PVA ( poly vinyl acetate size- their formulation, of course) prior to priming. I don't think the company, if it wanted to stay in business very long, would want to recommend a product that would break down prematurely,
and I also assume that they do their homework like we hope other companies do. I think we are in a period among paint manufacturers where each one wants to introduce the latest advance that will get artists to move toward their product, and for every company that wants to move forward, there will be
another who will send out a note of caution. When I hear the words " unlike our competitors, we make
sure that......" the flag goes up. I don't much care for putting someone else down to make one's self look good. Surely investigate, go to different sources. Talk to chemists, conservators other painters, and then make your choice. Bruce


John Alexander Day said:

The following may be of interest to the use of PVA glue size from Winsor & Newton:

Q. "Can canvas be primed with foundation white over a PVA size? Is this safe?"

W&N. "We do not advise the use of PVA at all as it is not archival.  It may disintegrate prematurely leaving the remaining painting with no foundations."

[John Alexander Day]

Hi Bruce,

I got this information from the Winsor and Newton website :http://www.winsornewton.com/, and I too find it strange that two paint manufacturers give a different answer to the use of PVA size. I for one am always concerned about using the best materials for painting and the proper use. It does make you think, for me anyway that Winsor and Newton who are celebrating their 175th year in the business (since 1832) would not be up to date on this. I do happen to know that Winsor and Newton do extensive laboratory testing by technicians/chemists they employ for all their materials. They also test their competitors products, this info I heard from a rep. The have R&D lab in London at their headquarters.
I have not seen this company saying negative about their competitors. I do use and enjoy Robert Gamblin's materials too. I am sure PVA size is a good way to go, I have been tempted to use it myself. There seems to be so much written about the do's and don'ts when it comes to oil painting even these days.

As you say it is a question of choice, and I put this information up as I thought it might be of interest.










Bruce Bundock said:

If I am not mistaken, I think a well known oil paint manufacturer recommends the use of a PVA ( poly vinyl acetate size- their formulation, of course) prior to priming. I don't think the company, if it wanted to stay in business very long, would want to recommend a product that would break down prematurely,
and I also assume that they do their homework like we hope other companies do. I think we are in a period among paint manufacturers where each one wants to introduce the latest advance that will get artists to move toward their product, and for every company that wants to move forward, there will be
another who will send out a note of caution. When I hear the words " unlike our competitors, we make
sure that......" the flag goes up. I don't much care for putting someone else down to make one's self look good. Surely investigate, go to different sources. Talk to chemists, conservators other painters, and then make your choice. Bruce


John Alexander Day said:

The following may be of interest to the use of PVA glue size from Winsor & Newton:

Q. "Can canvas be primed with foundation white over a PVA size? Is this safe?"

W&N. "We do not advise the use of PVA at all as it is not archival.  It may disintegrate prematurely leaving the remaining painting with no foundations."

[Armand Cabrera]

I would be careful because not all PVA is the same. You need a PVA that is PH neutral, not too acidic or alkaline otherwise it will burn chemically or be prone to mold.

[Mary Byrom]

PVA sold by Hollanders is PH neutral and is used by bookbinders . Its a good price and good product.

Armand Cabrera said:

I would be careful because not all PVA is the same. You need a PVA that is PH neutral, not too acidic or alkaline otherwise it will burn chemically or be prone to mold.

[Mary Byrom]

I put the PVA on first, let it dry, then put the oil primer on. I don't stretch it just roll it out on a large table. Roll it back up when it is dry to store it. I recently painted PVA on both sides and ended up with a really stable surface. Painted a large 24x30 painting on it while it was taped to a board, took it off and glued it to a panel with mighty muck . It dried over night and was framed and out the door the next morning. I find it so easy to use canvas this way. When Richard Schmid did a demo he painted on primed canvas taped to a board then stretched it after he finished painting the picture.
Its nice as you can change the size of the picture if you like . You are not stuck to the fixed size of the panel.

[Bruce Bundock]

Hi Mary,
For my part, I have never used PVA or rabbit skin glue when preparing my canvases. My earlier post was in referencing various companies that perhaps tout their research as being more thorough than their competitors. I work in acrylics and oils ( M.Graham - ground in walnut oil). I use an acrylic medium as a "size" and then acrylic gesso. I like the flexibility. I use the same acrylic size and primer when I prep my canvases for oil. I have not had any problems with this approach. I don't know much about mighty muck
or why you would need to put PVA on the back of your canvases or how it contributes to a more stable surface but with space always being at a premium, unstretched painted canvases seems easier for storage until you need to prep for a show. At some point I may try PVA if I find some inherent advantage over my current way of doing things. I really enjoy these exchanges, folks! Thank you all. Bruce

[Mary Byrom]

Hi Bruce , I have to use PVA as I'm not using rabbit skin glue. I'm not using gesso I'm priming it with an alkyd primer, so it has to have PVA on it for the alkyd to adhere to the canvas or linen.

Bruce Bundock said:

Hi Mary,
For my part, I have never used PVA or rabbit skin glue when preparing my canvases. My earlier post was in referencing various companies that perhaps tout their research as being more thorough than their competitors. I work in acrylics and oils ( M.Graham - ground in walnut oil). I use an acrylic medium as a "size" and then acrylic gesso. I like the flexibility. I use the same acrylic size and primer when I prep my canvases for oil. I have not had any problems with this approach. I don't know much about mighty muck
or why you would need to put PVA on the back of your canvases or how it contributes to a more stable surface but with space always being at a premium, unstretched painted canvases seems easier for storage until you need to prep for a show. At some point I may try PVA if I find some inherent advantage over my current way of doing things. I really enjoy these exchanges, folks! Thank you all. Bruce

[Mary Byrom]

Another question. I just got a piece of portrait canvas. It came folded with creases . I need to get the creases out before I paint it with PVA & alkyd. Wash it? Put it in a dryer ? Iron it? (That will take the sizing out but if I'm putting PVA on it does that matter?) I didn't take care of creases once in the past and I had a crease appear long after the canvas was painted . It got worse as the painting got older.

[Mary Byrom]

Matthew thank you ! Its very, very long (63" x 6yards) no board big enough. I'm going to try hanging and spraying it, then maybe steam iron ? Maybe I will be forced to cut it ...

R Matthew Songer said:

Mary, pin it to a board and use the steam and spray function of an iron. Like blocking a needle point, as the heat and moisture activates the size and fibers, stretch and re-pin the canvas. Allow it to dry completely while pinned.

Mary Byrom said:

Another question. I just got a piece of portrait canvas. It came folded with creases . I need to get the creases out before I paint it with PVA & alkyd. Wash it? Put it in a dryer ? Iron it? (That will take the sizing out but if I'm putting PVA on it does that matter?) I didn't take care of creases once in the past and I had a crease appear long after the canvas was painted . It got worse as the painting got older.